Socialism vs Capitalism vs Libertarianism and Bat Shit Meshuganah


This started innocently enough with this meme that I posted to Facebook:

I’m 67 years old. I well remember this as truth for my parents, and I even lived it for a time.  But a much younger family member of mine took immediate issue with it. And so it begins:

JJA1: Expect people still do but they also don’t have credit cards, car loans, student loans and 30 year mortgages. Maybe if people weren’t so greedy buying things they don’t need they could afford things they really want? Some reason people think the rich are the only ones that can be greedy. When their just feeding you what your greedy heart desires. MORE STUFF!

Moi: Uhm, we had credit cards, car loans and 30 year mortgages back then. The only thing we didn’t have are student loans. That’s because back then, most State colleges had free or very reasonable tuition. Thank you for playing. Feel free to try again.

After thought: Maybe I asked for it by being snarky.

JJA1: I’m saying if you want to have 5 kids you still can off one income. You can’t also have student loans, credit cards, car loans and 30 year mortgages.

JJA1: …and your parents didn’t have credit cards, 30 year mortgages, student loans or car loans.

Moi: My parents bought a new car every 3 years or so. So they did have car loans. They also had credit cards, once they started becoming available.

MOI: Not only did my parents buy a new car every 3 years or so, they took me (and usually a cousin) with them on vacation every year for two weeks in Wisconsin (or Minnesota or Tennessee) where dad rented a cabin and a boat in a little lake side resort. Further, he also paid for tuition for me at a private school (St. Patrick’s Grade School). Mom never worked. They did have pretty high rent as I recall. WHY? Dad held a highly paid (and benefited) UNION JOB. It was the union health care plan that paid for mom’s cancer treatment. Dad never had to pay out anything, even for an aspirin. It was UNIONS that created the now, almost defunct, middle class.

JJA1: JJA3 only works and has 3 kids and his sister law has 5 kids and her husband is the only one who works. They actual live in a house across from our Curtis house. It’s actually built the same exact way. It’s not big at all but they don’t have a huge mortgage either.

Moi: You must realize that JJA3 is in a highly lucrative business, with a very exclusive specialty (surgical videography). I think he’s one of maybe six videographers in the country in that specialty.

JJA1: when you live California it’s probably hard to comprehend how normal people live.

MOI: I don’t know WHERE you people get these myths about how we live in California. It’s true we have high taxes, but we also get a lot of benefit from those taxes. The fact is the standard of living in California is much better than most anywhere else and the cost for that is only a little more. Also, California has a gross national product that rivals many countries. We could actually afford to secede from the US is we wanted to.

JJA1: I think you have to understand that in the United States people have very different experiences compared some. Your right most people in California and New York are struggling struggling but that’s there problems and all of us are shouldn’t have to pay for their poorly ran states.

JJA1: mom took care of 3 boys by herself. No credit cards, no college education, no student loans then, no car loans, and no mortgage.

Moi: No son. Your Mom had a mortgage. It was only (I believe) $300/month (and should be paid off by now) but she did have a mortgage. This was because when we bought the Chicago Ave. house (the one you last lived in) I had poured the bulk of my inheritance in as a down payment. So your mom had some very unusual circumstances to function under. $300/month is WAY WAY below the pervading rent (at that time) in Kankakee. Or anywhere else for that matter. Actually, in California the rent on a mobile home lot tends to be around $300.

MOI: I would be very surprised to find out that your mom didn’t rely on some Govt. assistance, as she was definitely qualified. I’m guessing Food Stamps, and/or Medicaid. Honestly, if she was not (or is not) she’s a fool. There is no possible way (and especially now with the pandemic) that her day care is lucrative enough to pay enough for her to be disqualified.

JJA1: …mom didn’t pay her mortgage in 30 years and I believe 60% was put down and she paid it of in 15 years.

MOI: 15 years sounds about right.

JJA1: the government shut daycare down so did get some pandemic assistance but she never qualified for this any other assistance. She also has rented out her rooms in her house to college students.

JJA1: she $25,000 of her savings and you $25,000 of your $110,000 inheritance. I wouldn’t say that’s the “bulk” of your inheritance and you left her with a 110 year old house that needed a lot work still. She kept it up barely. So not really a blessing.

MOI: Uhm, if your mom had any savings I never knew about it. My down payment on the house was a little over $70k. That’s what it took to get the payments down to $300/month.

After thought: My inheritance was $125,000.

JJA1: the house was only $80,000.

MOI: No, it was $110,000.

MOI: Hmmm. If my calculations are right (no guarantees) your mom is paying about $4,200 in property tax every year. Which means that even if her mortgage is paid off, she still owes about $350/month. But this is an educated guess.

JJA1: problem is you made a promises you didn’t keep. That’s included after the divorce too. It not a big deal. God used all the suffering to make us better. I learned from watching moms work ethic and discipline with finance. She also give 15% of her income away and so I guess she doesn’t consider herself poor does she?

MOI: There is a whole list of things, little things really, that she was supposed to gather up and ship to me. That never happened. I don’t care really. As far as the divorce goes, EVERY obligation asked of me was fulfilled. I can make a list if you want.

MOI: BTW, Ceridwen and I get Snap (Food Stamps) and our Medicare is supplemented by MediCal (California’s version of Medicaid. That’s how I paid for over $200,000 in medical expenses this past year). In addition, we also rent both of our spare rooms out (although for the last year we’ve doing AIRBNB, which is A LOT more lucrative.

MOI: We don’t rely on Govt. assistance, we just qualify for it. If not for the pandemic, our Snap benefits would only be $16/month. Because of Covid-19 we get $375. (After thought: Most/all seniors in California get this, and MediCal too). Nice. You seem to believe that there is some shame in getting “welfare.” That’s just Bull shit. Welfare is there to protect us from capitalism. Capitalism produces far more poverty than prosperity. If it were not for Capitalism there would be no homeless.

MOI: That’s a fact.

MOI: Actually, the main reason I qualify for all that is because I am over 65. That’s all. I think California has more benefits for seniors than other states.

 JJA1: I never said you should be ashamed and if it works for you the way things are great 👍🏼 It works for me the way things are too so no need for anyway to be unhappy then. Again I’m glad you are happy the way things are so no need to post about things that are not true then. Im sorry you never learned how to be on the right side of capitalism. Only a consumer never an investor. I don’t believe I have ever said capitalism is perfect or that people shouldn’t be helped. Only that people should do their best if possible not to be on assistance if they can. I’m not sure why that’s not a worthy goal. Sounds like you have everything. Food, shelter, clothing, transportation and healthcare. Why attack anyone?
MOI: Who am I attacking?
JJA1: Your attacking anyone who disagrees with you. You say things are facts but when I present you with evidence or exceptions you act like they don’t exist. How can everything you believe be true and everything I believe be false. Every thing I do is wrong and everything you do it right. What hope can you offer your sons to navigate in this world other then depending on government to change everything for us?
MOI: Ceridwen and I have been together since 1998. We have NEVER had a fight. We’ve NEVER had even a disagreement. Ask her. We finish each others sentences. We’re kinda like twins in many ways. I believe that’s how it’s supposed to be. But, don’t take my word for this. Ask her.
MOI: Who attacked who first? I posted a meme. You attacked it. It c an’t be true you say. But that meme was about something from the past. You weren’t there. You can’t know – no fault. But I was there. I do know. Wrong and Right are subjective, and dependent upon ones philosophy. Opinions are not facts, and they are neither right nor wrong. I noticed that if I state a fact about my life, you attack it based on some psychological nonsense – for example, “you just avoid conflict…” No, we just don’t have conflict. It’s not that we never disagree, it’s just that the subjects we disagree on are extremely minor. Our minds and hearts are so much in sync that we function as one being. Here’s a weird example: Ceridwen uses medical marijuana. Now, when I first came out here I smoked it. I got high. But I don’t anymore. In fact I haven’t had a toke (or an edible) for many years now. Why? I don’t have to. When Ceridwen smokes WE BOTH GET HIGH. That’s how in sync we are. I will now pull your methodology on you: You can’t see the truth in my life because your philosophy (libertarianism – INDIVIDUALITY) will not permit it. My life contradicts your position, therefore I must be deranged. Everyone is an individual to you. Everyone is separate. So Socialism not only cannot work (even though there are countless countries where it does – including here) it will never work. It’s “Every man for himself.” “Everyone who disagrees with me is my enemy.” Even G-d is an individual, who punishes those who disobey Him with an angry and jealous rage. Funny, the motto of the United States is “E Pluribus Unum,” “One out of many.” That contradicts your whole raisan d’etre does it not? And you say government cannot change or help anyone? Then why does our Constitution say “…in Order to form a more perfect Union, …… promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty…” ( so Liberty is the basis of general Welfare. So if a person lacks food, or shelter etc., they cannot have liberty. They cannot be free). Sounds like the whole basis of Socialism to me. But, that’s just my opinion, neither right nor wrong. Just like yours.
MOI: Guess what? You saw what happened on January 6th? Those morons were all “individuals” acting they stated, in obedience to their G-d. This is what comes of libertarianism: selfishness and lawlessness. Except when it comes right down to it, they didn’t act as individuals. They acted as a mob. This is because, like it or not, an individual acting on his own cannot get anything done, They always have to unite with others. Now here’s the thing: If everyone believed as I do, that we all, collectively are G-d, then there would be no war, no conflict. There would be no poverty, no homelessness. Why? Because we would treat each other as G-d. And “G-d” (Us) would take care of us, using Govt. as H-r instrument. There would be universal Peace, because all the nations would unite and govern the planet as One. Star Trek’s vision of Earth is exactly what we would have. But this is all in conflict with the Xtian (I use the “X” here because it’s not really Christian at all – what I believe is actually the what Christ taught) philosophy. It requires true ONENESS. My G-d is ONE, and all sentient beings are one with H-r/H-m. Sorry about yours.
MOI: You know the body (your body, my body) works the same way. Millions, maybe billions of individual cells have all given up their individuality to make JJA1. They all act and function as one entity. But, some might rebel. They metastasize and start doing their own thing. They become a cancer and infect the body. What happens when we have cancer? Don’t be a cancer Josh. It will not go well for you.

JJA1: the twins work their way through college with little to know debt. Went to community college first two years. Then graduated from ISU. 3 years later me and Aisha decided go back but difference was school had sky rocketed because government decided to help by backing student loans and I was to stupid to see the cost till I was a year and half in. So me and aisha dropped out. Still cost us $30,000 for no degree. That’s what happen the government helps and that’s why you could afford to go to college and just work your way through back in the day. People still do work their way through college by the way and go debt free. It’s just hard work and their not going to party and have experience like most dumb kids.

JJA1: … of course I see kids in your county are living out of their cars to go to school.

MOI: This is why we need Bernie Sanders solution: FREE TUITION to all public Universities and Colleges, just like almost every other country has. I swear, sometimes I think we should rename the United States to the Ferengi Republic of America.

MOI: And you should realize that Govt. programs are subject to whatever political party enacts them. For example, the “Govt. backed student loans” you reference were the product of REPUBLICAN (or, as I say “Repulitarian”) dominance. To put it bluntly, the Republican (and Libertarian) Party is represented in fiction by the Ferengi people. See…/Ferengi_Rules_of…

JJA1:  free education doesn’t solve people going to a get degrees in something there is no demand for. Like yourself maybe. You said you had a degree in journalism right? You also can not higher a persons IQ with an education. So the 10% of the population that have IQ under 80 it will not help but I’m sure it will continue to indoctrinate everyone in progressive ideologies that don’t cause people to create any solutions like free market does.

After Thought:  “free education doesn’t solve people going to a get degrees in something there is no demand for.”  True. In the old Soviet Union you had to be screened before you could enter college. The Govt. decided what field you should study for. You had no choice. Is that what you would prefer?

JJA1: if student loans are immoral then why doesn’t congress allow them and back the still. Could easily stop backing them but then that would stop their indoctrination of students wouldn’t it?

MOI: Yeah, well that was the whole point of backing student loans, and the profits. We must never forget the profits.

MOI: One thing, and I don’t mean this to be insulting, but your use of grammar reveals how poor your education has been. This is not your fault, and in fact may well be mine (and your moms). I am sorry for the role I played in that.

JJA1: Lol exactly my point. You have great grammar but what does it matter. I purposely don’t improve my grammar to prove a point. You would rather say “I am smart” then “I is a wealthy.”

After Thought: Well, that  disparages your teachers at KTA, who  taught you grammar.  Your use of bad grammar makes you look uneducated, and it makes it look like your teachers didn’t do their job, which means all that tuition (much of it at a discount) was for naught.

MOI: Taxes are the dues one pays for the privilege of living in a civilized society. Don’t like taxes? Move to Somalia. I hear they have nice dirt roads there.

JJA1: and my other point is not to put you down but to point out you could have had 5 kids but you did want to and you could be living in a paid off house and have higher quality of life but your happiness was more important then working out the problems with mom.

After Thought:  After the twins were born, your Mother INSISTED that I get a vasectomy That happened during Xmas of 1981. So, I could never had had 5 kids.

JJA1: I means do really think that me and the twins don’t have disagreements with our wives. Do really think we are happy all the time. Do you think we are never disappointed in our relationships? We gut it out. We love each other in-spite of our differences. My wife’s very progressive but it doesn’t change my love for her. I’m not suggesting you leave your wife or anything I’m just saying it’s not that couldn’t you just made choices that you thought were more important. You value a place where most people can’t live because the cost of living is to high but isn’t what you love. Well enjoy it but understand it was very expensive and means you have to rely on government assistance in order to maintain your life style.
JJA1: I’m not sure you understand what I do or have been doing with my life. I mentor kids and I have sons I am an responsible for. I am not foolish to think the world is perfect but a lot what we believe also determines the outcomes we have. I study the people who capitalism works for and I am able to duplicate that. What else can I do? Should I give up? Should I quit or be an example or the exception to the rule? The life shouldn’t be so hard club isn’t for me. I appreciate hardship and conflict because requires me to become more. Having civil disagreements with my wife is how a become a better person. The fact that you don’t have arguments to me doesn’t seem necessarily like a good thing. Perhaps you just avoid conflict however social change doesn’t come from people being silent. You must have uncomfortable conversations and risk offending people I order to have better outcomes. Acting like there are not cons to socialism is appalling to me when we have no facts it has worked in the past.
MOI: By the way: you say ” I study the people who capitalism works for and I am able to duplicate that.” So you’re telling me that you are a bill ionaire? Well congratulations! Because you are one of the very, very few for whom Capitalism does work. The problem is, if a system does not work for everyone, that system is flawed. That system is not of G-d.
JJA1: I better reply would be “show me how to do it.” I don’t study billionaires. I study average people with average incomes and average talent who inherit little to “NO” money. I don’t really care how much capitalist make. I just hate it when capitalist lobby the government and it results in hurting individual. Capitalist are capitalism biggest problem along with their government hitch men.
After thought:  Funny.  You specifically said you study billionaires. Now you say you don’t.
JJA1: So basically what happens individuals take responsibility for what they can do and an evolved mind understand the goal is to be interdependent. So you have self sufficient individuals coming together to solve problems. Instead of groveling to powerful corporations, governments entity’s. Free market just does it better. I like to say no when I don’t like the deal.
JJA1: here is really how life works. Only you can really make yourself better. No one can force you. I try to influence people or persuade people but after mentoring people for years I realize not everyone is coachable. You can’t change people. I only entertain your post cause I sort of hate you have limited yourself. You are so smart but don’t believe in yourself.
MOI: How am I limiting myself? I believe that I (in the collective of course) am G-d. You are as well. That is the greatest aspiration there can be. There can be no other. There are no limits.
JJA1:So the individual gets some hope. They start their journey and believe in themselves. They start to see this is hard as shit but not impossible. They realize they can be better but the change is minuscule but it does add up and the more they become efficient the more opportunities they have. Then someone notices their efforts and the value they bring and that person actually does get an opportunity but it’s not hand out it’s hand up. Then they can improve their quality of life and their families and their communities. They have more then they need so they can actually help the people who struggling out of their abundance but their smart enough to know the difference from empowering someone then enabling them. So they don’t reward bad behaviors. Then process repeats itself of course sometimes a generation gets spoiled. Privilege isn’t always a privilege. Sometimes it’s just another obstacle. Life is hard no matter what class your in. It sort of empowering when you know no it not a competition. You stop being envious. It’s just to challenge your self. How good could I be? Life is meaningless. It doesn’t matter a lot what i do. Most likely the next generation won’t even remember your name.
Only whats done is Christ is eternal. This world is temporary. Why fight for political leaders. For parties and countries that come and go. The kingdom of God will last forever but these earthly problems are just toiling in the wind.
JJA1:Solomon knew this. He had it all and it’s not all that but you should strive to be the best you can be to serve others.
MOI: ‘… you should strive to be the best you can be to serve others.”  THAT’s MY ENTIRE POINT! That’s the only way we survive. Everyone is everyone else’s brothers keeper.  Everyone works in harmony, and in joyful unity for the greatest good of everyone.  That’s how G-d works. Thou art G-d.
MOI: BTW Ceridwen and I have been teaching this stuff for over 20 years. We’ve reached thousands (yes, thousand) of people all over the world with our “Gospel”: Thou art G-d. We’ve even written/published a book: The Druid Path. Go HERE to download your FREE copy.
After Thought:  Yes, Jesus is eternal. An eternal LIE.  There is no evidence that a historical Jesus ever existed. None. If there was, the Romans would have documented it. They documented everything. But there’s nothing.  Oh, there are a few hundred records of various men named Jesus (or Joshua or Yeshua) who were crucified for various and sundry crimes. A handful of them were from Galilee.  But none had the words “King of the Jews” written above their heads. A thing like that would have been documented. 
Of late, I have been entertaining the Caesars’ Messiah theory, that the Roman Flavious family (of whom Josephus was a member) made up the whole thing in order to justify the persecution of the Jews. I wonder how that worked out? Oh wait…..
Another idea is that Jesus really does exist. Am I contradicting myself?  Not really. There is an occult theory whereby mythological beings become real through the power of believers.  If a critical mass off believers comes together,  their object of worship becomes real. This is called an egregore.