Humboldt Progressives and Zionism

 

 

I got involved in a discussion concerning Ukraine on Humboldt Progressives, a Facebook group. Here is my involvement:

Pat
Except that after Ukraine tried to democratically elect a president, the US went in there with regime change and appointed “their” president. A neonazi, and the US has been busily trying to start a war since by pushing them into NATO, and threatening Putin with weapons on their border.

Note: This was a mistake on my part. I thought he was talking about the current Ukrainian President.

Ellis Arseneau
Pat  How can a Jew be a Neo-Nazi? You are obviously talking out of your a**.

Robin
Ellis Arseneau Being Jewish is a religious/ethnic identity while a neoNazi is a political identity; they are not mutually exclusive. For instance you can be a Jewish and be Zionist or not be Jewish and be Zionist and you can be Jewish and not be Zionist.

David (Author)
Robin: he is not a neoNazi, if he were, he would have done what trump asked.
Since he did not, the actual neo-Nazi leader decided to invade his country.

Leftist whataboutism’s, oh my

Ellis Arseneau
Robin  Here’s one for you: I am a Progressive Zionist. And no, sorry, you cannot be Jewish and be a Nazi, Neo or othewise. You might recall the Nazi’s murdered 6 million of us.

 

Lance
Robin  Really? How many Nazi Jews do you know? Pathetic Putin BS and you and Pat  have swallowed it whole.

 

Robin
Lance  https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-12-24-mn-12209-story.html%3F_amp%3Dtrue&ved=2ahUKEwje5L2G95v2AhWeGDQIHVaXA2U4BRAWegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw3Zc1Povq5akANXUA3PXZDC

 

David (Author)
Robin  have you read the book? I don’t think this proves your point https://www.publishersweekly.com/978-0-7006-1178-2

 

Ellis Arseneau
Robin  Kinda like the Republicans who are praising Putin, eh?

Jennifer
Ellis Arseneau you can’t be a progressive and a Zionist. Sorry being a self proclaimed Zionist is regressive

 

Ellis Arseneau
Jennifer  I know of 3,000 self proclaimed Progressive Zionists. Maybe they are mistaken? Maybe they’re really aardvarks?

Note: That’s the number of members of the various Progressive Zionist groups on Facebook.

Jennifer
Ellis Arseneau or maybe they aren’t progressive at all. After all that term has lost all meaning since democrats think they are progressive.

Ellis Arseneau
Jennifer  Well to me, Progressive means pro-woman’s rights (both political and reproductive); it means that all races are treated as equal; it means that everyone gets to vote; it means that one is free to speak, believe and act according to their own conscience,; it means that everyone deserves healthcare; everyone may join a Union if they wish; anyone can marry anyone that agrees to marry them; it means they can’t be discriminated against because of how and whom they love. That’s just a partial list.

David (Author)
Jennifer  and in his defense I have friend that is extremely progressive, she is Jewish and supports Israel and there is my aunt who is a pretty conservative Democrat, she is also Jewish but she doesn’t support Israel.

Jennifer
Ellis Arseneau except Palestinian Arabs right?

Note:  I didn’t respond to this. But she’s right.

Jennifer
I’m sorry you can’t be progressive and a Zionist. Zionist ≠ Jewish. Zionists raze family homes and murder children. Anyone who can’t differentiate between the two is anti Semitic

 

Robin
Ellis Arseneau, please define “Progressive Zionist” for me.

 

Ellis Arseneau
Robin  Read this: https//el.avalonrisen.com/progressive-zionist/

 

Ellis Arseneau
And also this: https://el.avalonrisen.com/who-am-i-short-version/

 

Ellis Arseneau
You might also find the following Facebook groups helpful in defining Progressive Zionists:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/298156044384725

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ProgressiveZionism

https://www.facebook.com/groups/progressivezionistsca

 

Robin
Ellis Arseneau Thank you. I see that “Progressive Zionist” is an oxymoron.

 

Ellis Arseneau
Robin  I think YOU are an oxymoron. If you don’t like it, you can’t have any.

 

Ellis Arseneau
Robin  Progressive anti-Zionists are just PINO Jew haters. History proves you wrong. What amazes me is that Progressives will back the group that stands for everything they say they are against.

Jennifer
Ellis Arseneau this is why I don’t like Zionist’s. You pick and choose who you feel deserves to have basic human rights. I don’t. I also don’t necessarily equate citizens with their government because a lot of the time those two don’t agree on major issues. This is all kinds of gross and you should probably say no more.

Lance
Ellis Arseneau I don’t think it impossible for a Jew to be both zionist and progressive but they do have to twist themselves some. There is a very fine line between supporting the existence of Israel while hating it’s racist policies against Palestinians and Israeli Arabs. J Street does a pretty good job of it.

 

Ellis Arseneau
Lance  What “Racist” policies? There is only one race – the human race. Jews recognize that. The real problem is that Israel fights back when she is attacked and she has superior armaments. Why does Hamas feel the need to fire 1,000s of rockets at Tel Aviv? Why does Hamas initiate these attacks from Hospitals and Schools? Why does Hamas use women and children as human shields? Palestinian Arabs are not the problem. Their leaders are. I’ve written extensively about the Palestinian/Israel conflict at https://el.avalonrisen.com/about-israel/

Ellis Arseneau
Jennifer  “…you should probably say no more.” And “cancel culture” rears it’s ugly head. I’m sorry. For both of us.

Jennifer
Ellis Arseneau there is no cancel culture and you are deeply unserious about progressive politics. You were about to say some fucking nazi shit and I wanted to head you off

Note: And here things devolve into profanity. You can always gage a speakers intelligence by their use of profanity.

Ellis Arseneau
Jennifer  Let’s see if I understand you correctly. What I am reading here is that I am not a Progressive because I’m not in “lock step” with all Progressive dogma? So even though I agree with “The Squad” on every other issue, I’m not a Progressive because I disagree with them on Israel? That kind of turns Progressivism into a religion of sorts, no?

 

Jennifer
Ellis Arseneau no it’s because you’re fucking regressive. Is it really that hard to understand that supporting imperialist and colonialist bullshit isn’t in line with progressive politics? I stg y’all will call yourselves progressives and not even know wtf it means when you’re actually shitlibs who wanna feel special.

 

Jennifer
YOU CANT BE PROGRESSIVE AND SUPPORT PEOPLES HOMES BEING STOLEN BY THE GOVERNMENT. YOU CANT BE PROGRESSIVE AND SUPPORT THE MURDER OF CHILDREN BY THE GOVERNMENT. YOU CANNOT BE A PROGRESSIVE AND SUPPORT ETHNONATIONALISM. Get it through your head shitlib. Nothing about you is progressive other than you want healthcare.

Note: I am 68 and I have Medicare. I have healthcare. Just ignore the other Progressive causes I mentioned earlier.

Ellis Arseneau
Jennifer  1) hen people refuse to pay their rent, they get evicted. 2)No children have ever been murdered by the IDF. Other lies you no doubt believe: 1)Israel is a colonial endeavor. Wrong: because Jews have lived in Israel for 5,000 years (there is even a cemetery in Jerusalem with graves going back that far inscribed in Hebrew), 2)Israel is an Apartheid state. Wrong – because Arabs would not be serving in the Knesset, the IDF, and as Doctors, Lawyers, teachers, nurses, and people would not be able to marry outside their group if it were. 3) Israel practices genocide. Wrong – because the Arab population has quadrupled over the last 70 years. You have fallen for “The Bandwagon Fallacy.” https://www.fallacyfiles.org/bandwagn.html “EVERYONE ELSE (in my group) BELIEVES SUCH AND SUCH (even though historical evidence is contrary) THERFORE I MUST ALSO. I’m not going to bother doing my own research.” Also, you lost a lot of points (and your credibility) when you resorted to profanity. You seem to have a lot in common with the minions of  Trump, who believe any old lie they hear because their leader said it was true.

Note: Then I blocked Jennifer.

Ellis Arseneau
I feel like I need to apologize to the group. This thread was about Ukraine, and I kinda let my own emotions run off on a tangent, not related in any way to the subject. I also caused some to devolve into the use of profanity. I’ll just shut up now, and keep my thoughts to my blog.

 

Note: Robin then tried to engage me (with a really stupid post) and I blocked him.